Episode #9 of the Sprouting Photographer Podcast features an interview with John Mireles from Photographer’s Toolkit.
For the past 24 years now, John Mireles has actively worked as a professional photographer. His foray into commercial and editorial photography began as an outgrowth of his participation in the sport of rock climbing. His first published photos, of urban rock climbers struggling to train far from natural rock, appeared in Rock and Ice Magazine in 1990. Since then, his viewpoint has widened to include the diverse people, places and experiences that collectively give rise to Americana. Along the way, he’s worked with clients ranging from Asics, DuPont, Dell, Qualcomm, Sempra, Intuit, Donjoy, Zappos and many others. His work has been selected to appear in juried competitions such as the Communication Arts Photo Annual, The ADDYs and the Art of Photography show.
About 15 years ago, he began photographing weddings through his studio formed just for that purpose, Ventana Photography. He’s traveled from Japan to Jamaica for wedding clients and photographed weddings big and small. He’s also photographed many families, from the every day to billionaires, through his Ventanakids brand. He’s lectured and received awards from WPPI and has written several books, including the Lookbook Posing Guide and How to Price Wedding Photography.
John resides in San Diego. When he’s not on assignment, he can often be found driving his road-worn RV across the country in search of places and people to photograph.
- If you really want to master your career, you have to do what everybody else is afraid of doing.
- We are in control of our own careers.
- We need to stand out by being different, not necessarily better.
- Why copying doesn’t work.
- Great photography starts from within.
- How to communicate differentiation to your clients.
- Why equipment doesn’t matter and shouldn’t even be communicated.
- Wedding photography is ultimately just about connecting with other people.
- Why stories and narratives are important as a sales tool.
- Why you need to define an “artist’s statement” to stand out.
- People don’t just buy pretty pictures, they make an investment in the artist.
- There is nothing that has a greater impact on a photographer’s business than the price that they charge.
- Pricing isn’t just pricing – it has an impact on every other part of your business.
- Why looking at your costs is so important.
- Why you might be actually only making $5/hour for your work and how you can avoid it.
- Information, knowledge and insights is power!
- Why you don’t need to make fundamental changes in your business, but instead make smaller adjustments.
The first all-in-one solution for photographers.
Sprout Studio is the photography industry's first and only all-in-one system built by photographers for photographers. Sprout Studio brings together all the tools you need to run a successful photography business - tools that help you stay organized, save you time and streamline your workflow! .
- Photographer’s Toolkit
- Photographer’s Toolkit on Facebook
- Jerry Ghionis Photography
- Yervant Photography
- John’s Toolkit Wedding Pricing Kit
- John’s Bride & Groom Lookbook
- John’s website
- The image of the women on the lawn that John talks about
- John’s fine-art website
- Photographer’s Business Coach Blog
To create a unique brand and separate yourself as a photographer:
1. Define what “themes” have driven you in life.
2. Inject yourself and your themes into your work. Put yourself in your imagery.
3. Create an “artist’s statement” that defines you and your work.
4. Start showing your work that is fundamentally different.
5. Develop language to communicate your differentiating points.
6. Come up with stories to attach with specific images in your portfolio and tell a narrative with those images when showing them.
John Mireles: It’s going great. How you doing?
Bryan Caporicci: Good, man. I’m excited to get into a chat here with you because we were talking before the show. I love the business side of things and you kind of alluded to the fact that you’re like a lot of photographers in the sense that you just want to shoot. You love photography and you realized quickly that you need to know a lot about business. That’s ultimately what the Sprouting Photographer podcast is all about. Why don’t you share a little bit, John, about yourself, your background, and how you came to realize quickly that the business of photography is so important?
John: First, thanks for the intro. And thanks for having me, I’m really happy to speak and share what knowledge that I may have. I’ll share with you a story that goes back to before I became a photographer. Before I had any idea that I was going to be a photographer. I had just graduated from college and was working for an insurance company. Most people are like, oh, you worked for an insurance company, how boring. But it was just a great experience for me because I learned so much about life. I learned so much about corporate America. It helped me in so many ways. It also gave me a background in the legal system because I worked handling some pretty intensive insurance claims, litigation, and all that stuff. I would handle these cases where people died, there was construction defect or parking garages were constructed incorrectly – really intense cases. Everybody in the office was afraid to handle them. They were too messy, there were too many facts, whatever. My boss at the time, who was really my mentor, he said you know what, dig into those cases. Get to know them. Get to know everything about them. And I did. Suddenly, instead of being afraid, I dug in. I studied, I researched, I read every single legal report from the attorneys, and suddenly these cases that seemed mysterious and like I needed to stay away from them became fascinating. Then I began to get all these complicated cases, which were actually the most fun cases in the office because I get to deal with these big cases, big settlement discussions, get in the with the judge, and really learning all this stuff. What that taught me was that, yes, we all want to do the interesting, easy part. But if you really want to master what you’re doing, enjoy the whole process, and get ahead of everybody else, you have to do those things that everybody else is afraid of. If we take that into photography, I love being a photographer. That’s what I love to do. I love to shoot. I talk about business a lot so people often think, well, John, you really must love business. I do but only to the extent that I really want to be a photographer and I know that if I can master the business side of things, then I will be able to blossom as a photographer. I’ll be able to go places, do things, and live a life that all those photographers who are afraid of it can’t live. This goes back 20 plus years ago – a little more than that. But that’s really where my interest in the business side of things came from.
Bryan: I love it and it’s actually funny, John, because when we first started talking off air, I wrongfully assumed that you were a business guy. I started the conversation with me saying that you and I are similar because I love business – and I sort of assumed that you loved business. We got into the conversation about the fact that you are a photographer and you just do love photography and that’s where you ultimately want to spend your time. But you do come across as knowing your stuff in business and that’s a really good message that the listener can take away. That even if you don’t love business, it’s OK. Because with a bit of education, knowledge, and training, you can be comfortable in that space.
John: You can be comfortable with it and you could also embrace it, because there’s so many challenges and creativity that’s required to succeed as a businessman. My message would be, embrace it as much as you can, because you need it to grow. So many photographers get into this cycle of, they neglect the business side of things and they only concentrate on trying to squeak by with a little bit of business skills and some decent photography skills. What happens is, they only get the cheap jobs and then they deal with the cheap clients. And cheap clients are the worst, because they’re the most demanding, they’re the least respectful, they offer the least creativity in the process. Then the photographer’s work starts to head downhill and they always have to be getting that next job.
So somebody else says, “Hey, I’ll pay you $500, will you do the job?” They’re like, yeah, I need that money to keep my doors open. There’s this vicious cycle where they’re constantly forced to go after cheap jobs with all the cheap clients just to keep their doors open. Then the work they’re doing sucks because they’re not working with creative clients. They don’t have the budget to do new, interesting work or fly to interesting places and so poor work then reinforces there position in the marketplace. It only allows them to go after the cheap clients. You just have this vicious cycle that you can only break through by really attacking the business or approaching the business from a holistic perspective. Great work combined with great marketing skills, great business skills. The two of them together, that’s the recipe for success. It’s not one or the other. It’s both of them working together in harmony.
Bryan: Yes, I think that’s a great approach. Let’s talk about that vicious cycle then because a lot of photographers that are listening, maybe they’re in that cycle and they’re in this continual battle of having these clients call them with price challenges. They’re always having to justify themselves. One of the things that you have on your website, it’s the first video you have on the photographer’s toolkit, you say that you’ve got a photographer friend where he had a client coming in with a budget for their wedding of $3,500. That photographer ended up closing at $13,500. That is an amazing claim. I’d love to hear what you have to say about that.
John: That story really goes to the heart of my message, as a photographer speaking to other photographers. That is that we all are in control of our careers. It’s really easy for us to say, my clients won’t accept that. There’s too much competition. There’s not enough money. We all come up with the excuses for why we can’t succeed in the way that we want to succeed and so what we’re doing is, we’re giving up control over our careers to anonymous forces. We’re not taking control of our careers. What my message is, is that you do have this control and the way you can control your career is through your work. Plain and simple. If you do great work – but it doesn’t even have to be good work, it just has to be different. That is the key. When I say great, I mean I want people to look at my work and go, wow, that’s great work. But fundamentally it has to be different and I think as photographers we’re all trying to match the photographer of the month, whoever that might be. Whether it’s Jerry Ghionis, who’s fantastic. We’re all trying to copy and match Jerry Ghionis or Yervant or whoever the person might be. We’re trying to copy that person and we’re trying to be better or at least as good as that person. That’s completely the wrong game to play, the completely wrong approach. Instead, what I would say is, how can I be different from that person? Because if I’m different than everybody else, then if a client meets with me and they appreciate the differentness that I bring to the table, then they really have to choice but to book with me, right?
Bryan: Right, because there’s only one John.
John: There’s only one John and there’s only one person who can deliver this type of work. In my business coach e-mails, I use the example of, what if your thing is to shoot people upside down. Well, if someone wanted upside down photography, they would have to go to you. And so it’s that kind of idea.
Bryan: You’re going to have this surgence of photographers shooting images of people upside down from now on, after listening to the podcast.
John: As long as they give me a cut, I’m fine.
Bryan: Right. So what would the approach be if you’re the photographer sitting at home listening to this podcast right now and they’re saying, “Yes, I love it. I definitely agree that I want to be different”. How could a photographer actually start that process or start to define their own unique style?
John: That’s actually a great question, and one of my talks is based on just this idea. First, what you have to do is understand who you are as a photographer. Most of us, when we investigate photography, we’re looking at new camera equipment. We want to know new lighting techniques. We want to know how to use Photoshop. We want to do all these external things that can make a pretty picture. Great photography does not start from the outside. It starts from deep within. You have to know who you are. There was the photo editor for the New York Times magazine, she talked about doing the internal work to really understanding who you are as an individual. And those are the people she hires. That’s where it starts. Know who you are. What I like to do when I’m teaching a class is say, who here is the same as the person sitting right next to them? And nobody’s going to raise their hand, because we’re all different. Then my question is, then why are we all taking the same photos?
Bryan: Right. That’s a great way to look at it.
John: What we need to do is focus on who we are as individuals and then our uniqueness will begin to express itself through our photography.
Bryan: Right. What kind of questions, John, do you think photographers should be asking themselves? Because I love that idea, and I think a lot of photographers would agree with that fact that they want to be different. I think the challenge that a lot of photographers will come to – and I’m sure a lot of this is in what you teach – is actually discovering what that is. What kind of questions could a photographer ask themselves to really start to identify what it is that makes them different?
John: Honestly, if you want to become a better photographer, go see a psychotherapist. Because what you really want to do is tap into the deep themes that drive you as an individual. What are some of the themes that have driven me in life? And I’ll use myself as an example. I like to show an image, it’s on my www.JohnMireles.com website. It’s of a woman sitting in front of a house, and there’s an American flag in the background. It’s a very middle American, mid-century style house – nothing interesting about it. And she’s there in a high-fashion short skirt drinking a drink. That image is very autobiographical. People can look at it go, that’s a pretty image. But I’m in that shot. I grew up in one of these mid-century houses in a mid-century neighborhood. I went to Catholic school where expressions of sexuality in suburban life were not excepted. And I grew up in the 70s and 80s – Ronald Reagan, the American flag, Americana. Yet there’s this – being a Catholic school kid – desiring the thing we can’t have, which is beautiful women. There’s all these things in there that I’m bringing to the table that could only come from me. If you grew up in a brownstone, you’re not going to appreciate the way that I do the mid-century homes. You’re not going to appreciate finding a home with artificial turf in the front, representing the artificiality of suburbia. What I’m doing is investigating the themes of my own upbringing and then expressing that through photography, into something that people can go, oh, that’s cool.
Bryan: That’s great. I’m actually flipping through your website as we speak, John. For those of you that are at home listening, definitely go check it out, www.MirelesPhoto.com. John, your style is amazing, and you’re spot on in saying that you’ve got this consistency among all of your work that definitely speaks to a certain market. My question for you, let’s say you’re a photographer again, sitting at home. You’re listening to this, and let’s say that you do go through this exercise of defining who you are as a photographer and really pulling on who you are as a person to inspire that. How do you actually go out and start to communicate that to the market and to your clients?
John: It depends who your market it. Are we marketing to wedding clients? Are we marketing to portrait clients? Are we marketing to commercial clients, ad clients, editorial clients? Each market has it’s own requirements. I’ve been focusing a lot lately on the fine art market. I just got back from a 4-day photography festival in Houston, where I was showing my work to museum curators, gallery owners, fine art magazines from around the world. That’s going to be radically different from what someone would do in weddings. Every marketing channel or every market is going to have it’s own needs.
Bryan: Let’s say you’re a wedding photographer, very similar to the example that we talked about earlier, the photographer that went from $3,500 to $13,500. You’re a wedding photographer and you’ve gone through this exercise of defining your own style. You sit down with a bride and groom across the table from you and start looking at albums. The bride and groom, maybe they’ve gone out and looked at a couple other wedding photographers. And they ask you, what makes you different? What are the kinds of things that, as a photographer, you want to start communicating to them verbally or through your style? What are ways that we can communicate these things, in this example to a bride and groom, outside of just having the image speak for itself? Because sometimes – maybe you might agree with me or maybe you’ll disagree – clients can’t tell the exact difference between one or the other, and they need it communicated in a different way. Are there any other techniques that you might recommend to photographers for that?
John: I’d say two things. One, you need to show work that is fundamentally different. If the difference between you and another photographer is they shoot Canon and you shoot Nikon, that’s not a meaningful difference. I’m sorry. If it’s that you shoot with a Nikon D4S and the other person uses a Canon Rebel XT, that’s not a meaningful difference. There has to be meaningful difference in the work. That’s important because so many of us have no difference. There is no meaningful difference. Then we’re like, “Well, the work doesn’t really matter. Only prices matters or only marketing matters”. It only matters to you because your work isn’t unique. That has to be said, and that has to be in there. Once it’s in there, it’s absolutely imperative that you develop a language to communicate that difference to your clients. Clients aren’t just buying the work, they’re buying into you. They’re making an emotional investment into the photographer. Do I like this person? Do I like what he represents? Does he speak to my needs?
When you create this work, for example, I can talk about my work – this girl sitting there drinking a drink on a fake lawn. We could say, yeah, that’s a pretty image. But then I can also bring with it language, which then elevates it from just a pretty picture to, “Wow, this is a work of art”. This is something that this person put himself into. This is worthy of art being on a museum wall. It’s important to develop that language, and it’s really easy to apply trite phrases. Those little exercises that people can go, what’s your favorite word here? What’s your favorite color? And that’s what’s used to describe their photography. Excuse me, but that’s bullshit. Again, we need to dig a little deeper.
Really think about what are the central themes that drive us as human beings and how are we using photography to communicate, to bring those things out. How are we connecting with other people. Wedding photography’s really just about connecting with other people. I talk about going to see a psychotherapist, ultimately what we’re doing is connecting. This is deep emotional connection. That’s as touchy-feely as you can get. Yet we use these mechanical boxes and digital sensors to create that. But we can’t forget that ultimately what we’re seeking with the client – buying – is an emotional connection. So you have to create language that really speaks to that. I can’t tell any one photographer say this or say that. Because then that’s just going to be false. They’ll just be parodying what I say.
Bryan: Of course. From a practical standpoint then, I guess a good exercise based on what I’m hearing here would be for a photographer to look back at their work. Define those elements that make their imagery unique and different. Then start to use that in almost a storytelling context when you’re sitting there with your clients. Back to the example of the wedding photographer sitting across the table from a bride and groom, instead of just letting them flip through a wedding album, you’re suggesting tell more of a story with it and attach a narrative to the images. So there’s more than just pictures they’re looking at.
John: Yeah, thank you. Here I am off in outer space and you’re bringing me back. But absolutely, as they look at images, there’s a balance. I don’t like to talk too much, but I will stop a client and tell them the story about this image. What’s going on or what I did that was unique. How I solved some challenge photographically. So they can really appreciate, here’s what’s going on. Thinking through what you’re doing at each stage. Also, the more practice you have, the more opportunities you put yourself into, the more you’re going to be able to develop that narrative, that dialogue with the client. One thing that I’ve found that’s been really helpful is creating an artist statement for my fine artwork, because it really forces me to put into words exactly what I’m doing. That exercise then makes it easier to the people viewing my work.
Bryan: That’s really interesting. I love that approach. John, you don’t have to share your exact artist statement with us, but I’m curious – is that something that you recommend a photographer creates in a self-discovery process, so that they know what they’re doing? Or is it something that should be externally communicated as well?
John: I created it because it’s a necessary component of the fine art world. If listeners want to go to my fine art photography website, they can go to www.StudioMireles.com. There, they can read my artist statements. They look simple enough, but I can tell you, it takes weeks of agony trying to put down into words what’s going on in my head. Again, this is the stuff that most people don’t like to do, but by forcing myself to do it, it really makes me think about exactly what I’m doing here with this work. Then it makes it easier for me to communicate that to the buyers. People don’t just buy pretty pictures. They really make an investment in me as an artist. That’s where the real money comes from. Otherwise you’re out there with all the people who are just shooting weddings for cheap money. They’re like, “That’s pretty, he’s cheap, we’ll just pay whatever the bare minimum is”. I want to get paid many thousands of dollars, not just a thousand, two thousand bucks for my work. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but that’s just for me and I know what I need to do in order to flourish as a photographer.
Bryan: I love it, and thank you so much for sharing www.StudioMireles.com with us. Again, I’m visiting it here as we’re talking. Definitely, for those of you that are interested in checking it out, it’s some great work. John, excellent, excellent photography.
John: Thank you.
Bryan: I’d love to transition to a completely different space. I know it’s something that you’re also passionate in, and it’s sort of the opposite end of the spectrum. You’ve got a new product all about pricing for wedding photographers. Again, this is something that’s very near and dear to my heart. I love the topic and mechanics of pricing. I’d love for you to talk a little bit about what the product is. Further than that, what does it look like for a wedding photographer, and why is it important to get down to these nuts and bolts in the mechanics of pricing?
John: There’s nothing that has a greater impact on a photographer’s business than the price they charge. And it’s a simple thing. “I charge $2,500 for a wedding”. That sounds simple enough, but if everybody else is charging $1,500 and your work is as good as theirs, then you’re going to flounder. But does that number allow you to profit? Does it allow you to achieve your financial goals? There’s nothing more important than pricing in our businesses. Just a little adjustment can have a big impact on whether people book us or not. But unfortunately, it’s like this black box. People wet their finger and they stick it in the air and say, I guess I should raise or lower my price. What I really wanted to do is break the whole process down for coming up with prices to a way that again gives photographers a sense of control, so they know exactly why they’re pricing things and how to price things so they can connect with their market. People think pricing is just a price, but they don’t realize the huge implications it has on customer service, the types of clients you get. How by just making some subtle adjustments you can make a lot more profit, how controlling costs can generate more profit. There’s just so much going on, it’s got the complexity of a race car. But we just tend to look at the outside of it.
What I’ve done is created a package that has three parts to it. One is a book called how to price wedding photography. It’s a pretty easy to follow book. It covers the basics of what some of the terms are and gets into the psychology of what the client is thinking when they’re making their buying decisions. Then how to price your work, how to structure packages. It really gets into the nuts and bolts of the approach you want to bring to your pricing to maximize your profits. Once you have that knowledge, I offer a pricing guide. It’s a template in Photoshop and InDesign, that you can plug your numbers into and it follows the principles that I outlined in the book. Most people, they don’t know how to structure things, and they might be great photographers but they’re not very good designers. So maybe the graphic design isn’t that great. I tried to create something nice and pretty with a nice, clean structure that boom, they can just plug their prices into. That takes all the guess work out of how do I offer this and what do I offer.
And la piece de resistance is what I call my Toolkit Wedding Profit Calculator. It’s a database that I put together from scratch. I’m not a programmer by any stretch, but I was able to do this. Basically what you do is open this program up, and it asks very simple questions. How much money do you want to make, how much do you charge for coverage only, how many images do you shoot during a wedding. Easy questions that we can all answer, doesn’t require anybody to go running to their accounting programs to figure things out. Answer the questions and then it asks, do you offer albums. And if you offer albums, I have all the data from companies like Graphistudio and Finao all in this program pre- entered. So if you offer a Finale One album, 10×10, you just select it and boom, all of the cost information for that album automatically flows into this program. You can quickly see exactly how much you’re making off of each album, how much you’re making off your packages. Then it models everything out.
Say you wanted to shoot 20 weddings and you’re going to shoot 10 of this package, 5 of that package, and then 5 of another. You can see exactly how much money you’re making. How much you’re earning per hour in your business. What you need to be charging per hour. All of your costs from post- production. If you shoot 10,000 images at a wedding, what does that cost? Most of us think it’s free. No, there’s a cost to your business, and you need to know what that cost is so that you can make decisions about your business. You can understand, you can look at your numbers. I presented the software, and we went through it at WPPI. Guy ran through it and looks like, oh, he’s making $40,000 a year. “Wow, that’s great”. He’s making $9 an hour. It’s one of those moments where you realize, wait a second. This isn’t where I want to be. And you can’t get around it, the numbers are all there. Boom, I’m making $9 an hour. I had another guy I worked with, he’s making $5 an hour in his business. Other guys are making more, not everybody’s making $5 an hour. But I bet you an awful lot of us are. We’re working a lot of hours. Then unfortunately what happens by working a ton of hours, that eventually leads to burnout. We get tired of what we’re doing, the quality of the work suffers, we take cheaper and cheaper clients, which means more and more work. We’re trapped because we can’t do anything else, so it leads to this vicious cycle. What the profit calculator does is, for the first time, give an easy answer to photographers, how much money am I making per wedding.
Bryan: That’s amazing and again, speaking directly to my heart, because I love this stuff. Here’s a question that I have for you and this is something that’s probably burning in the listeners’ ears right now. They’re sitting back at home listening, hearing this thing, and maybe they inherently know they’re not charging what they should be charging. And they know that they probably could be making more money serving at a restaurant making minimum wage. What are the kinds of steps that a photographer could take to start to get out of the market that they’re currently in and into a new market?
John: First of all, working with the pricing tools that I’m offering, really allows one to see. It’s like taking x-rays. It’s like you have a broken bone. From the outside, you know something hurts. But until you take x-rays, you don’t know what’s the problem. By using these tools, now you can see, here’s what the problem is. I had one photographer that I worked with who offered only one option. He would do coverage and then he would offer one option with the coverage. When we broke it down, I showed him that he was losing money on that additional option. He’s taking in more money, but he’s actually losing money. Until you know what’s going on in your business, you can’t make informed decisions. This product is revolutionary in the sense that once you do that, once you run through it, you will know exactly how much money you’re making per wedding.
I bet you if I asked 10 wedding photographers, how much money are you making per wedding? I won’t get a single straight answer from any one of them. Information is power. Once we know what’s going on inside our business, then we can say, “OK, well, here’s some adjustments I can make”. I can do this, I can do that. Sometimes people think, I need to redo all my pricing, I need new clients, I need to redo my website, I need to do all these things. Sometimes all it’s a matter of is making some simple tweaks. Getting your profitability in line. Maybe charging a little bit more here, cutting some costs here. Once you know what those things are, maybe doing after sales sessions. When they’re ready to throw in the towel, they’re like, wait, a second. I don’t need radical surgery. I just need to take that bur that’s on the bottom of my foot, sitting in shoe. Sometimes it’s simply little things and I think this is a great tool and from there you can make informed decisions.
Bryan: Just to kind of wrap that part of the conversation up. Let’s say they do your calculations, they understand where the pain points are in their business, does it make sense for them to then go in and make smaller incremental changes? Let’s say they’re way far away from where they ultimately need to be. Does it make sense for them to make those changes in small increments or just to completely revamp, completely rebrand, and just start fresh again? What are you thoughts on that?
John: Well, we’re talking abstract here, and I think it’s really going to depend on each photographer. If a photographer’s just starting out and he’s just struggling to match the level of work being done in the marketplace, that’s going to be a much different challenge than a photographer who’s been around for 10-15 years, who’s doing good work, and then is watching their business crumble as new people come into the market. Each business is going to have it’s own set of challenges. We have the two sides. We have the yin and the yang. We have the business, we have the marketing – and we have the work. If the two aren’t working together, you’re going to have problems. Again, I like to look at businesses holistically. I want to look at the work. How does the work look? Is it up to the current standard? Now let’s take a look at the business side and see where we can do the tweaks. Sometimes, yeah, we need to radically change the work. If you’re doing the same thing you’ve been doing for the past 10 years and now you’re wondering why doesn’t it work anymore, well there may need to be some pretty significant changes. On the other hand, you have the person just starting out, maybe they need to keep doing more of what they’re doing, building up the portfolio, and then slowly increasing their prices as their work improves.
Bryan: That’s great. It sounds like it’s almost a teeter totter effect, where you’ve got to raise one and let the other catch up. Then raise that and let the other one catch up. Kind of go back and forth like that. Is that sort of what you’re saying?
John: Yeah, I’ve always looked at it as I’m trying to eat a pie, and I’ve got to nibble around the edges. One day I’m nibbling on this side of the pie, and then the next day I nibble at the other side of the pie. Then before I get too deep, I nibble at the other. You just slowly work your way into the center of the pie and not just attacking it from one side.
Bryan: I don’t know about anybody listening but you definitely just made me hungry by that last little bit. But John, thank you so much for sharing the knowledge, insights, and experience that you have here. Where would you want to send listeners to check out more of your stuff and to look into the pricing calculator?
John: Well, www.PhotographersToolkit.com is the website. It’s where I have my pricing calculator, my lookbook, and other projects or products like that. I also invite listeners to sign up for my e-mail newsletter that goes out. They can sign up through the website. And then also check out my blog which, is www.PhotographersBusinessCoach.com. There I post my various thoughts on the industry. Lately, I’ve honestly been focused on my own photography, so I haven’t been posting as much but when I do post, that’s there. And I have www.JohnMireles.com, www.VentanaWeddings.com for my wedding work, and so on. I probably have too many websites, but I tend to compartmentalize things. Anyhow, that’s where they can go.
Bryan: That’s awesome. John, thanks again for joining us here and thanks for shedding some light on a topic that’s often very challenging and difficult for most photographers to look at.
John: Thank you for letting me expound, I appreciate it.