Sprouting Photographer Podcast is all about the business of photography. Episode #28 of the podcast features an interview with Sally Hogshead.

Discussion topics include: standing out, being different, and discovering how the world sees you at your best.

Show notes for episode #28 can be found at www.SproutingPhotographer.com/28

Recent accomplishments for Sally’s newly released book How the World Sees You:

  • #1 on the Wall Street Journal
  • #2 on the New York Times Bestselling List
  • Oprah.com is writing an article about Sally’s book “How the World Sees You”

Watch this video of Sally talking more about it:

Discussion Topics

  • Creativity vs Business
  • Why Sally decided to make her company’s most profitable product FREE for a limited amount of time.
  • The difference of how we see the world versus how the world sees you.
  • Why we need to be aware of how others see our best personality traits.
  • Our photographers shouldn’t be interchangeable, and our personalities shouldn’t be either.
  • We don’t have to be great at everything, but we have to be extraordinary at something.
  • Vanilla Ice Cream versus Pistachio Ice Cream, and why you want to be the latter.
  • Strengths versus differences.
  • Why you don’t need to change who you are, but instead become more of who you are.
  • Why “different” is better than “better”.
  • Why what you think of yourself isn’t as important as what others think of you.
  • What Sally’s Fascination Advantage Assessment uncovers.
  • The 7 different personality triggers – passion, alert, trust, prestige, mystique, power and innovation.
  • What a “dormant advantage” is.
  • How you can structure your business around your personality advantages.
  • How to best connect your clients and prospects with what makes you truly different.
  • How you can communicate your distinct advantages.
  • Why every client isn’t for you.
  • Don’t specialize according to what you do versus specializing according to who you are.
  • What your “anthem” is and how you can apply to every part of your life.

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Action item:

Take the Fascination Advantage Assessment! Click here to take the assessment.

Leave us a “comment” below and let us know what Archetype you are.

Podcast transcript

Sally: Hey Bryan. You know what? I have never been announced like that before because it’s just that fresh.

Bryan: It’s so timely, so I thought, “I’m so excited about this”. It was just released, was it last week?

Sally: Yes, it was last week. I was just sitting there. The New York Times releases the information on the bestselling list. It’s a very formal process as you can imagine – very top secret until they officially announce it. As authors, we don’t hear it directly. We have to hear it through our publisher. So I was sitting there on pins and needles waiting – sweating bullets because I knew the list was going to come out around 5 o’clock. My whole team was around me. We were holding hands, and then finally – ding! I got an email from my publisher. Number 2! You probably could have heard me scream if you had your windows open.

Bryan: That’s amazing. Let me be the first to congratulate you publicly in a podcast or interview format then. Let’s give the listener a bit of context here. I’ve prescribed to our listeners that they have to read your book “How the World Sees You” before they even dive into this interview. I’m excited to take some of the concepts, dissect them, and dive a little bit deeper than just an overview of the book. You and your team have been so generous to give us 500 tests that our listeners can take – The Advantage Test. A little backstory on this: I actually bought the test. Your test is normally available for purchase for $37. I bought it a couple of years ago when your first book came out. Now you have this message where you just want to spread the love. Talk to me a little bit about what that process has been like for you.

Sally: Let’s talk about it through the lens of being a creative person. As creatives, for example as a photographer, wouldn’t it be amazing to be able to just take photographs, share them, and have that available for free – not even have the business part come into the equation? I’m a creative person originally. I spent the first half of my career working as a creative director on brands like Nike, Target, Coca-Cola and I loved the whole creative process. And yet at the same time, I needed to be able to build a business that was scalable not only financially, but to be able to grow and make a real difference in the world by doing bigger work on a bigger scale. About 2 months ago, I turned to my team and said, “The primary financial driver of our company is the the Fascination Advantage Assessment”. We’ve now had 300,000 professionals do the Assessment. It’s based on our pilot programs with companies like AT&T, GE, Cisco, and over 100,000 small businesses. I said, “What if we did something radically counterintuitive? What if we made it available for a very limited amount of time for free? We could see what happens when we take our very best crown jewel and give it as a gift. Pay it forward. Don’t put the traditional limitations on it that we normally would when we think of it as a revenue driver”. For example, with you, we want your audience not only to do the Assessment, learn about themselves and how the world sees them at their best, but also be able to pay it forward and share it with their clients or coworkers. What we’ve discovered is when you remove financial obstacles, things grow so quickly that bigger things come out of it than we ever possibly could have imagined. For example, part of the amazing sales of the book had been that we didn’t force people to pay before they had access to the best of what we had to offer. That opened the floodgates for people to want to participate in the conversation.

Bryan: Yeah, I love the idea. I’ve done the test and it’s actually really interesting because I’ve done the test a couple of times. It keeps giving me the same result, which is very true and telling to that. It’s a great self-discovery mechanism. Talk to me a little bit about that because I love that the test gives you that platform. It gives you those words to put to who you are at your best, and the book dives deeper into why and how it works that way.

Sally: Sure. We all grow up knowing that we needed to understand how we see the world. This is a traditional personality assessment. It’s how you see the world. It’s based on psychology. You might think of a test like the Meyers Briggs, Strengths Finder, or DISC, and you take this personality assessment that tells you how you see the world. That’s a good metric to have. It’s just not the most important metric anymore. Today, people are so distracted and the world has become so much more competitive that there’s a new way to see yourself. It’s one that will be very intuitive to a photographer. You can’t just look at how you see the world. You have to look at how the world sees you. If I can make a parallel with photography, a photographer understands that everybody has certain angles that make them most attractive. Certain colors, types of lenses, and certain things we can do to accentuate our naturally positive traits like bone structure, eye color, hair texture, etc. Your personality is the same. You have certain naturally attractive traits but you may not be aware of the way other people see those traits, and how you can accentuate those traits professionally. This assessment isn’t built on psychology, but it’s built on branding. I built it based on my experience as a creative director, based on how the world sees the most valuable brands. When I began as a copywriter and created television commercials and print advertisements for global brands, I worked with Richard Avedon. It was on his very last commercial shoot for Harry Winston, a big global campaign featuring Mena Suvari and Anjelica Huston. He initially declined 5 or 6 times, and finally I wrote him a love letter. I literally wooed him, just put everything on the line and said, “As a creative person, it is my dream, my honor to be able to work with you!” It was only once I really let my personality shine through and stop with the formal proposal, then he said yes. For all of us, if we understand the ways in which our personality is most compelling, impressive, and attractive to other people, then we can be more effective in attracting the kinds of businesses that we truly want.

Bryan: That’s one of the things that you say a lot in the book. It’s the idea that you’re not trying to shape who the person is. In fact, you’re not even trying to change who they are. You’re trying to do the exact opposite with this education and with the test. It’s to make people more of who they already are. It’s the distinction of being boring, which is something that you talk about early on in the book. As a society, business owners and creatives, we’ve learned to take on this idea of vanilla – being a generalist and good to everybody. Talk to me about why it’s really important to be very specific in who you are and who you want to serve.

Sally: Imagine if I took photographs from you, laid them out on a light table, and took 10 people who could be competitors of yours or interchangeable with you. If your work doesn’t stand out in some way, you have to compete on the basis of price. In other words, if your work is exchangeable with the guy at the mall who’s charging $49 for a portrait, then your business is in trouble. The same is true for our personalities. You have natural qualities that allow you to be extraordinary and remarkable. You don’t have to be great at everything, but you do have to be extraordinary at something. I describe this in the book as a metaphor. Everybody likes vanilla ice cream, but people don’t fall on a sword for it. Vanilla ice cream is a commodity. It goes with everything, everybody will eat it – your kids, your guests. But if you really want to be loved or championed for by your audience, then you need to pick more distinctive flavor. For example, pistachio. Not everybody loves pistachio, but the people who do really crazy love pistachio. They’ll drive across town and pay more money for it. In your business, you have to think: Do you want to be the vanilla? In other words, the vanilla player is the one who has the biggest budget, most famous, biggest exposure, spends the most money on marketing – or you can be something different. You don’t have to please everybody. Instead, you can be the pistachio, who doesn’t have to spend as much money on marketing because they offer something that’s so distinctive and inimitable that it can’t be found anywhere else. Your personality already has these qualities. You already have certain qualities that are a competitive advantage that allow you to stand out and be loved for who you are. If you don’t identify and articulate that, then you can’t really leverage this to grow your business and your life.

Bryan: There are a lot of ideas out there about focusing on your ideas and your strengths, or finding what that strength is and putting your energy and attention into that, especially as it relates to photography. Talk to me a little bit about a strength versus a difference and how it relates to this discussion.

Sally: A subtle but very important distinction. There’s been a lot of conversation over the last decade about finding your strengths and fixing your weaknesses. I propose something different. Strengths become a commodity. Instead, focus on your differences. Find the ways in which you can offer something that’s just slightly different than other people could, and then accentuate that. When you focus on your differences, you don’t have to fix anything. You don’t have to change who you are, but become more of who you are. When you understand the way people see you as being just slightly but crucially different, you can be more loved. It opens up a huge space in your career to stop working so hard, to get off the treadmill. Stop trying to pursue more and more, better and better. Different is better than better.

Bryan: I love it. A big distinction you just said and you talk about in the book is the idea that it’s not what you think of yourself, and it is more important what the world thinks and sees of you. You use the example of someone that thinks they’re funny. If they think they’re funny, that’s great. If nobody else thinks they’re funny, they’re really not all that funny. As it relates to photographers, because we’re in this creative cycle, we make up our own ideas or we have our own perception. Art is very close to the maker, right? We make our own assumptions and put out what we think we’re putting out there, but we need to break that down and see what other people think of our work. I’d be interested to take the idea of the Fascination Advantage Test, and everything that we do with that. Before we dive into that, do you want to give a quick overview of that, Sally?

Sally: Sure. Of the Assessment itself?

Bryan: Yeah. What’s an archetype? What’s an advantage, and all that? In case there’s that bad listener that actually hasn’t read the book yet, we’re not losing them in this discussion.

Sally: Naughty, naughty listener! I began my research about a decade ago by looking at brands. I transitioned from being a creative director to being an author, and I found that when we look at the most fascinating brands, just like the most fascinating political speeches or movies, there are certain patterns. There are 7 different categories of types of communication. When you can understand how a brand or person communicates, and understand the hidden patterns underneath that, then you can predict which types of messages are going to be most successful. For example, one of the 7 different advantages is passion. Passion is a huge advantage in times when people want to build an immediate relationship and communicate with emotion. You can probably tell I have a primary passion advantage. We’re sitting here talking and I’m moving my hands around as though you and I are across the table from each other. I look to be able to connect with people. That means I speak the language of relationship. It’s very difficult for me to go into a situation in which I can’t connect with people. I have a disadvantage when I can’t connect with people. On the other hand, my dormant advantage, the one that I’m least likely to use of the 7 advantages, is trust. Trust is about predictability; schedules, budgets, sticking to a particular plan, doing something over and over again.

Some people are great at delivering the same thing repeatedly. I’m not. I like to invent rather than replicate. In situations in which a client or customer wants me to be very predictable or rigidly prescribed, I’m probably not going to be successful in that situation. It’s critical for me as a business owner to know that my company should not try to compete on the basis of being predictable. For example, a year ago we made a key decision that if what we deliver to clients is a promise to help them have more fascinating communication, anything not in line with our promise we should take off the table. Every time you communicate, you’re doing one of two things. Either adding value, or taking up space. When you add value, you attract people who want to pay more, refer, be loyal, and work with you over and over again. This is how you grow your business. On the other hand, if you’re just taking up space, that means that people want to delete your messages. They don’t want to talk to you. They don’t want your work. They’re not wiling to pay more for you. You have to compete on the basis of price. It’s a really bad place to be. It’s that feeling that when you get an email from a person or company that’s just spam, selling you a fake Rolex watch, and you just want to delete or filter it away. In the same way, every time you put messages out there in the world, whether it’s a marketing message, conversation topic, or photograph, you’re either adding value to your listener or viewer, or you’re taking up space. So the decision that we made is that if my company promises to deliver fascinating communication, then in any area where we cannot deliver it, it’s crucial that we not try to compete in that area.

We stopped doing expense reports. We decided that expense reports requires such rigidity, accuracy, and attention to detail that it’s simply not a place that we’re most likely to succeed. Now we tell our clients up front that everything is a one time flat fee, non- negotiable, completely transparent, so that we never have to have that conversation. We never have to talk about money over and over again. We don’t have to turn in receipts or keep track of our expenses, because it’s all built in. What that does from a business perspective is allow us to leverage the areas in which we have a natural advantage. In other words, every time we communicate with our clients, because we’re not talking about $6 receipts from the airport, we can focus on how we naturally add value. Our clients say, “Wow! We want to communicate with you more! Every time we talk to you, you tell us something we didn’t know and show us what to do differently!” The same way in your business, you may make different decisions than I would. For an accountant, doing expense reports might be an amazing way for them to add value. They should do as many as possible. There isn’t one right solution, but there is a pattern to the ways in which you add value to your customers. That’s what the Assessment is measuring. How do you add value? What are those qualities, traits, or abilities that when you embody that, your customer perceives you as intensely valuable and you have a highly differentiated place in the market? When you focus on the areas of what I call your archetype, which is your primary and secondary advantages – the way in which the world sees you at your best – then people perceive you as being irreplaceable and highly differentiated. When you do the Assessment, you find out what your archetype is and also where you rank on the other five, so that you can make sure that you avoid those pitfalls. You can stop trying to be all things to all people and instead provide extreme value to those clients that you want to attract over and over.

Bryan: I’ll quickly give a plug for the Advantage Test, because I’m talking about it in the beginning, now, and in the show notes. Everybody needs to go do this. Sally and her team have made it free for the first 500 of our listeners. Definitely go check it out. It’s at www.HowToFascinate.com/you, and you can use the code bcaporicci for that. Once the photographer has gone and done that, Sally, it sounds like the idea is to take what your advantages are and make that more about what you do in your business. Then, take what your dormant or less popular advantag is and do less of that in your business. How does a creative, entrepreneur, or small business owner – because you talk a lot about teams and most of our listeners are solo-preneurs – how do we take something like this test, results, and what we discover about ourselves to start to shape our business and what we do on a day to day basis around that.

Sally: That’s an excellent question. Can I use you as an example, Bryan? Bryan: Yeah, please do.

Sally: Great. So your primary advantage is prestige. You naturally elevate the standard. When you do something, you want to do it well. You want people to see the best in themselves. You’re very unsatisfied with mediocrity or just maintaining the status quo. Your secondary advantage is power. Power is about authority and confidence. Power speaks the language of confidence. When you combine prestige with power, your archetype is named “the victor”. Victors are very achievement oriented. They like to be able to see the goal, pursue it – not sit around and talk about it but actually do it. Three adjectives that describe the victor are respected, competitive, and results oriented. May I ask you a question?

Bryan: Of course, please.

Sally: When we look at those three adjectives that describe how the world sees you at your best, which one would you pick to describe how you’re different? Those adjectives again, are respected, competitive, and results oriented.

Bryan: It’s really funny because when I saw this, it’s almost like this “A-ha!” moment – those are the words that describe me. How does she know it? Is she inside my head? For me, without a doubt, results oriented. Everything I do is intentional and purposely to get something out of it – a result.

Sally: A result could be the photographs that might come out of a wedding or portrait session, but results could also be quality of relationship, the podcast we’re doing right now, or helping your listeners deliver tangible outcomes instead of just making them feel warm and fuzzy inside, right? If you were going into a situation in which there was a celebrity couple getting married, you would love to be able to work with them, but you also know that they’re talking to five other photographers. For you, you want to play your A-game as you’re going into this conversation because it’s not just going to be about the portfolio. It’s also going to be about things ranging from discretion, is there chemistry, are you going to add to the overall experience. Other photographs might go in and all they would do is let their portfolio speak for them. You might go in and say, “Look, you only get one wedding day. It’s not just about the photographs. Let’s make sure we capture the essence of who your family is or what this moment feels like for you, so that forever more, when you look at these photographs, you’re going to be able to go back emotionally, intellectually, and recall every detail”. You might talk them through a journey of what that’s going to be like. You’re giving them a result that in their mind isn’t just about a photograph. Because ultimately, photography could be seen as a commodity. But what you’re delivering is a result that’s much bigger than that. If you go in to that scenario and you’re not results oriented or demonstrating your highest value, then in a way, you’ve failed yourself. you’ve undercut your own value. Do you see what I mean?

Bryan: Absolutely. Another question hat I had for you about it was, in the book you talk a little bit about different ways that you can frame ideas. You use the example of getting your kids to eat broccoli, and how you can use each of the different 7 advantages to communicate to your children “eat your broccoli”. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts if we stick with this example here, of me being the victor and how I communicate with my client across the sales meeting. Do I need to be communicating that in a way that suits their archetype or more in a way that suits my archetype and shows off what my advantages are?

Sally: That’s a very sophisticated question. What you’re asking is not just about how the world sees you, but how the world sees your client and how you create the best possible connection there, right? The first and single most important thing to focus on is what you can deliver at your highest level. Then, the next step is to think what is the problem for which you are the perfect solution. Let’s give tangible examples. There are 7 different advantages. We’ve already talked about yours – primary prestige, secondary power. We talked about mine, passion. Let’s talk about a couple of others. A different type of an advantage would be alert. Alert is all about details and preventing problems. Imagine going into the same scenario where you really want to be able to woo this client. If what you deliver at your highest value is that you’re meticulous, – let’s say you’re primary alert, secondary mystique, and your adjective that you choose about describing how you’re different is meticulous. That means every single detail would be covered. You would submit bullet points of which photographs you were going to do.

You would already have your shots fully planned out. This would not be about spontaneity, but making sure that the accuracy and finesse is constructed in a premeditated way. That even if it rained, your flash goes out, or your assistant shows up sick, you’re going to have backups for backups. That would be a different way of positioning yourself. For certain people and clients, that will make them feel much more protected. That’s going to be more what they want rather than what you deliver, Bryan. For that client, alert would be exactly what that couple would want to hire. Let’s take one other example, mystique. Mystique is the language of listening. People who have primary mystique are great observers. They capture things, they can see. They don’t take up a lot of space themselves and are not the ones to jump into the limelight, but they’re able to construct the perfect solution by taking all of their information and sorting through it. If you have primary mystique, that means people wouldn’t be paying attention to you at the wedding. They’d be paying attention to the couple. You might be invisible, but the photographs that you’ll be able to capture as a result – because you’re so non-intrusive in the way in which you interact with the couple and guests – is totally different. You would be able to get photographs that others wouldn’t be able to get. Whether you have primary prestige, alert, or mystique, you have a specific way that you’re helping that couple get the outcome that they want. The more you can understand how you’re naturally different, the more you not only build your brand, but build relationships.

Bryan: So in the context of talking with this couple on the other side of the table, if I’m communicating to my advantages and the photographer down the road is communicating to his, which is maybe opposite – for example, for me, my dormant trigger is mystique, and it’s really funny when you frame it in the way that you framed it here as a photographer. That’s definitely opposite of how I normally present myself as a wedding photographer. Let’s say that the photographer down the road is primary mystique. We’re both communicating the client but in our own ways. Does this mean that ultimately, the client will stick with who they connect with best in terms of what their primary trigger would be? Or is it whoever has a more compelling way of presenting it? How does that work out in the wash? I’m curious.

Sally: Yes, I understand what you’re saying. First of all, let’s be clear. Not every client is right for you. There are certain clients that simply want something that’s not what you naturally deliver. You have to be very careful of those situations. We’ve all been in the scenario in which we really want it to work with a certain client. Either we needed that revenue or we wanted the marquee name, and then afterwards we come away shaking our head saying, “Well, that wasn’t a good experience!” Either we’re miserable, the client was unhappy, or the work product wasn’t as great. Your goal is not to be all things to all people. Your goal is to be perfect for somebody. The more that you can find that pistachio client who wants exactly what you naturally deliver, the more your business is going to grow and the more successful you’re going to be.

Back to your question. You have dormant mystique. The way in which you’re most likely to succeed is not by being invisible. It’s by putting yourself right out there. You’re very articulate. It’s very easy for you to put your words together and earn attention for that. On the other hand, that would be difficult for someone whose primary was mystique. They would be uncomfortable being as forthright as you are. Imagine going into talking to this couple. If you communicate with them using your primary advantage, you have your best possible chances of winning. That doesn’t mean you will win. It means you’ve given yourself the best possible chance, like an athlete getting ready to go into an event. Preparing your conversation, presentation, understanding how they see you at your best is almost like an athlete getting ready for an event. You don’t want to go in haphazardly. You want to go in knowing what qualities they’re actually hiring when they hire you. Yours are going to be different than somebody with primary Mystique. Your goal isn’t to try to force fit yourself into what the couple wants. Your goal is to do what you naturally do best and have other people recognize that.

Bryan: I’m so happy that you went into that distinction, because it’s something that’s talked about inside of our industry so much. I talk so much to our photographers about it, and the fact that not every client is your client. What I love so much about how this wraps everything together is that not every client is your client. You have to put your best self forward and those that connect with that will naturally come and book you. Going forward from there, those that are looking for something that you don’t offer will find the photographer that’s right for them, in this case. I’d love to wrap up with one more discovery in terms of the Fascination Advantage Test, and this is something that’s very heavily debated inside of the photography industry. It’s the idea of being very specialized and only doing one type of photography. It’s a very controversial topic. I’d love to hear your opinion of it. When photographers do the Fascination Advantage Test and let’s say that they find that their primary trigger is passion, innovation, or whatever. Do you think it’s best for the photographer to focus on genres of photography that allow them to bring that out or is it better for them to bring that out in whatever genre(s) of photography they want to do? For example, a wedding photographer. Let’s say he also wants to do family, business, or newborn portraiture. Can they apply their advantage to all of those genres? Or do you think it’s more fine tuned to apply it to one that specifically speaks to their advantage?

Sally: That’s such a great question. You don’t have to specialize according to what you do. You should specialize according to who you are. If you specialize according to what you do, you’re limiting yourself inside a silo. If you specialize according to who you are, you can be adding value no matter what kind of situation you’re walking into. For example, I’m a speaker and I used to think I needed to specialize in terms of who I talk to – financial advisers, marketing people, and designers. What I found was although I have a very tightly curved niche – I speak about how to be fascinating – that really applies to anybody who’s selling themselves. I need to go into the situation understanding who I am. What I do is deliver fascinating communication and as long as my client can connect with that, it doesn’t matter what the profession is. In the same way as a photographer, in part 3 of the book you’ll write your “anthem”. Your anthem gives you a very specific way to differentiate yourself according to what you do that’s different and what you do best. Bryan, do I recall that you wrote your anthem?

Bryan: You saw my Tweedle. Yes I did, actually. It was funny because as I’m going through and preparing for our discussion today, I’m reading more about prestige and how I like to prepare for things. I don’t do things in a half-assed manner. I’m like, “Wow, I’m actually doing it as we do this because I’m preparing for the interview”. Yes, I did my anthem. Do you want me to share it with you?

Sally: Please do.
Bryan: Okay. It’s the first time. I haven’t even shared it with my wife yet. I’m a little

nervous about this but that’s okay. I am the “intentional creator”.

Sally: That’s right! I remember reading that and saying, “We’ve never had that! The intentional creator”. Give me an example of what it’s like when you are being an intentional creator.

Bryan: Everything I do has a purpose to it. It draws to the idea of being results oriented. I always am looking for something out of it. If I’m photographing a wedding, I’m not just taking pictures so I can have a picture somewhere. I’m actually taking pictures because I want to create this beautiful wedding album for the couple. Or, in the case of writing an article for SproutingPhotographer.com, I’m writing it with the hope and idea that I want the reader to have something tangible to take away from it. I’m creating it with intent. When I say creator, I struggled with this because I was trying to figure out what that noun is. What is it that I do? I realized that whether I’m taking pictures, speaking to an audience, or writing a book or post, I’m creating something that is bigger and deeper than myself. That’s how I came up with this intentional creator.

Sally: What I love about intentional creator is it gives you a rallying cry to point you in a specific direction and doesn’t just point you in one genre of photography. It doesn’t even apply just to photography. It could apply to planning a dinner party or anything that you do. If who you are at the highest level is an intentional creator, that means that whether it’s giving somebody a birthday gift or helping a friend grieve during a difficult time, what you’re going to bring to the party is intentional creation. It gives you room to be yourself and have a North Star of your communication that doesn’t have to be stuck to one specific area of work.

Bryan: That’s great. We’ll wrap up with this. This whole process is a deep dive in the book. You go into so much detail about each archetype, and that’s what I love most about it. There are 49 different archetypes, and you go into detail for each and every one. After the photographer listening does the test, they can go in and really discover who they are, how they contribute best, and how the world best sees them. Where do you want to have our photographers and listeners go to find out more about who you are and what you do, Sally?

Sally: Thank you for asking. They can go to www.HowTheWorldSeesYou.com. There, we give updates about the book. Can I share a couple of cool things?

Bryan: Oh, yes. Please do.
Sally: We just found out over the weekend, we’re #1 on Wall Street Journal.

Bryan: Congratulations! That’s amazing. Is this the first time you’re saying it publicly, too?

Sally: Yes. Well, I told my parents. Oprah.com is going to be writing about the book. We’ve been absolutely overjoyed, but I think anybody who is a creative is going to connect with this material that is very intimate and personal, because I was a creative for so many years and this is a very creative way of seeing yourself. I want people to be able to see themselves in a new way that’s not just based on their flaws and limitations. Instead, it’s who they are at their best. When you know who you are at your best, you can just focus on that, over and over again. It makes it really easy to show up in exactly the right way for your clients and all your loved ones.

Bryan: It’s almost like a practical application of the concept of branding. Would you say that’s a nice way of putting it – for people, as opposed to for brands or bigger companies? There’s a lot of discussion about being yourself, selling you, and all these ideas. There’s never actually actionable steps – this is the Prestige in me coming out. There are never any tangible ideas to put them into play, and that’s exactly what the Fascination Advantage Assessment does. For the photographers listening, I’ll repeat it again and have it in the show notes. HowToFascinate.com/you using the code bcaporicci and you can do that for the first 500 participants – you can do the test. There’s this amazing report that Sally gives you that talks all about everything you do, why that’s your advantage, how you can use that, and what your dormant advantage is. It’s really comprehensive. Sally, thank you so much for sharing everything you have done and all your years of research and planning. Congratulations on Oprah and Wall Street Journal! That is just incredible. I’m so excited for it. Thank you for taking the time to come on the show and talk with our listeners.

Sally: It is not only my pleasure but my honor. I’m a huge fan of your work and I hope I never get married again, but if I do…

Bryan: You can send me that love letter if you’d like!

Sally: Thanks, Bryan.

Bryan: Thank you.

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  • Wow – this has to be one of the best podcasts I have heard yet. Thank you Sally for sharing and making it ok to be just me. Attracting the right clients speaking to them Authentically has always worked. Sometimes we just need it to be reframed and packaged up. Thank you Bryan for bringing Sally into my world.

    • Bryan Caporicci says:

      Glad that you loved it, Steve! This was by far one of the most impactful episodes for me, as well! Have you done the Fascination Advantage Assessment yet? What were your results?

  • Melinda says:

    Super late comment here.

    Primary advantage: Passion
    Secondary advantage: Innovation
    Dormant advantage: Alert

    I am a CATALYST – expressive, intuitive, engaging. Dead-on accurate for me!

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