Sprouting Photographer Podcast is all about the business of photography. Episode #25 of the podcast features an interview with Alicia Caine from Profit First Photography.
Discussion topics include: Work-life balance, systems and a solid Facebook strategy for photographers.
Show notes for episode #25 can be found at www.SproutingPhotographer.com/25
About Alicia Caine
In 2007 I started my business in Bozeman, MT and went from stay at home mom to full time sole income provider. In my very first year of business, I grossed a little over $100k and continued growing rapidly. I started assisting other photographers teaching them my unique process of pricing and in 2010 made the choice to do business coaching full time as I discovers a huge demand of people desperate to be profitable that needed compassionate, personal mentoring. I had created the #1 pricing guide called Easy as pie which sold over 9k copies and in the fall of 2013 I rebranded my business from Served Up Fresh to profit first photography to better serve an audience who was walk through the fire serious about being not just profitable, but sustainable and help them navigate the massive changes that have occurred in the recent few years in the industry to have better business practices.
- The importance of work-life balance.
- How you can set boundaries around social media work.
- Why you should schedule your posts on social media.
- Why Facebook advertising is actually a great “deal” as a marketing vehicle.
- What’s wrong with Facebook engagement with most businesses.
- Why Facebook for business isn’t about you, it’s about your audience.
- How you can come up with a Facebook strategy, and why it’s important to be purposeful with it.
- Social media mindset shift.
- Why “slapping” a logo on your images may not be the best idea.
- How you can see how “popular” or “effective” a page is on Facebook.
- Why being consistently inconsistent on Facebook is important.
- How to convert Facebook fans into a more committed audience.
- What kind of “product” or “eBook” you can offer your audience to build trust and relationship with them.
- How you can develop a “value first” content strategy.
- How to “sell” on Facebook.
The first all-in-one solution for photographers.
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- Other articles and podcasts on SproutingPhotographer.com all about pricing
- Sprouting Photographer on Facebook
- Profit First Photography – Alicia’s educational brand
- Start your Photo Biz
- Time Clarity
- Your Ideal Client
- Email Marketing Love
- The Facebook Experiment
- Alicia’s Profit First Photography Facebook page
- Alicia’s Facebook Experiment
- Alicia’s “Focus” Magazine
Decide what your purpose is with your Facebook page? Why are you there? Break this down month-by-month and give yourself mini-goals each month. What is your goal or target for that month? Reach? Relationships? Promotion? Grow your page numbers?
Next, decide what type of post, interaction or promotion schedule look like for that type of goal or target?
Schedule out 5 posts per day that are all geared towards achieving your goal.
Supplement your Facebook posts and organic engagement with a well-thought out Facebook advertising strategy.
Alicia: Absolutely. My pleasure.
Bryan: Alicia, a lot of our listeners probably know you in a slightly different form. We were joking about this before the show, but you had a previous company in a previous life called Easy as Pie. Do you want to talk a little bit about your history in our industry of photography, the products you have, and what you do now with Profit First Photography?
Alicia: Okay. In 2009, I started with Easy as Pie, which was an ebook that sold 9,000 copies. It’s gotten around. I started wanting to help photographers understand pricing a little bit better, based on my experience. I ended up closing my studio in 2010 to work full time with these photographers as I was highly passionate about that. I had Served Up Fresh with my company, and my product that I was most known for was Easy as Pie. I also had a business plan named Happy Place and a marketing guide called Piece of Cake. Since then, I rebranded in the fall of 2013. We changed to Profit First Photography as we were making a transition to being more suited for photographers who are wanting profitable, sustainable businesses that were more of a profession than a paying hobby. I changed a lot of the content to be more geared to those kind of people – more walk-through-the-fire, serious business people. That has been the transition. Right now, I’m just bringing out all new product offerings. They’re slowly being released over time. I’ve got email marketing products, my pricing bootcamp, and time management. That’s my latest, Time Clarity.
Bryan: Yeah, that’s one you released not too long ago. I love the concept of that. Why don’t you share a little bit more about that?
Alicia: Because I’m a mom of 6 and my kids are homeschooled, they’re underfoot 24/7. I am the only income provider in our household. A lot of people look at me like, “How do you do that?” and I’ve done it poorly for most of my career. These are things that I’ve learned, now that I’ve got a really good handle on what I’m doing, going through times of life being at a balance. It was either wanting to work all the time, because I am a workaholic and I love what I do. I tend to overwork and not keep a healthy life balance. I’m not showering for a week – it’s just bad – not leaving the house. Having to really learn how to find a balance. There’s a lot of systems out there on how to time manage and be more productive. I felt like there wasn’t much geared towards, “How do you protect the things you value?” For me, one of the most important things is my family. Instead of putting boundaries around my business, I started putting boundaries around my family and my life. Divorce has a high rate of turning businesses. It’s really hard because there’s a deep emotional conflict – you’re now divided. I started putting boundaries in my marriage, my relationship with my kids, and also around myself. I’m usually one to sacrifice myself for other things. It’s just a matter of how you bring those things in, and mentally be okay with it. It’s really hard for a lot of people because they feel like if they’re neglecting their business, they’re going to be resented by their family or their clients. There’s a lot of fears that go into that. Instead of trying to teach people, “If you do this, this, this in your schedule and put this”, it just doesn’t work. It’s overwhelming. You have to understand why you’re doing what you’re doing, and why you’re spending time on the things you’re spending time on. It’s about getting clear about where you’re investing your time and energy.
Bryan: That’s awesome. I know that we’re going to get into some discussions about social media and Facebook in specific. You and I share a lot of passions in the same area that we’re discovering as we go along with our conversation here. Is there one thing that you might be able to share with the listener about Time Clarity? One top tip that they might be able to take away from this episode about time management or balancing work and life?
Alicia: Absolutely. Especially since we’re going to be talking about social media, just integrating that boundary is, “How do you put boundaries around social media?” For me, I believe fully in investing a lot of time and energy into social media, but it can eat up your life really quickly. One of the boundaries that I really recommend is putting yourself on a strict schedule. Not a schedule necessarily, but a boundary where you only check Facebook 3 times a day. When you check Facebook, like what I do, I set an alarm on my phone. I check Facebook at 7:30 in the morning, 1:30 in the afternoon and 7:30 at night. My alarm will go off on my phone, I drop what I’m doing, and then I set a timer on my phone for 15 minutes. I do as much as I possibly can on my business page in 15 minutes. I’ll comment, like, go to other pages, encourage them, write messages – I just get as much done. I’m super focused, not going through a ton of browsers. I’m going, “I’ve got 15 minutes. I’m going to give it as much attention as I possibly can,” and when the timer goes off, I’m done. That’s one of the really important things, because I’m investing about 45 minutes into Facebook every single day. Once a week, I schedule all my posts for the week.
Bryan: Now we’re getting into the beef here. This is good, I love this stuff. Let’s dive into that then. Facebook is obviously a huge space for photographers to market their business to their clients. Let’s backup before we get into some tactics and ideas. Do you want to quantify or qualify that? Talk to the photographer sitting at home right now, listening to us, and they don’t believe that Facebook is the space that they should be. If they do believe it is, they’re drinking all this Kool Aid that’s in the media these days saying that, “Facebook organic reach is dead,” and they don’t think that they should be doing that. Let’s talk about that a little bit.
Alicia: A lot of the content that’s getting spread – “Facebook is bad,” – the irony is, usually all those posts and videos are going viral on Facebook. They’re discrediting their own information, because it’s all getting spread around. We’re finding out about it, and it’s being found out through social media. No one’s watching it on television. It’s proving them wrong. It actually is working, and it’s working really well. A lot of people are frustrated that it has gone from a frame model to a pay-to-play. You can play for free, but you’re going to get better results if you’re paying for it, and that’s true in every form of marketing. There’s nothing you can get out there that’s super great for free. You could do face-to-face marketing and relational marketing, and you’re paying time for that. That is not free. It is still highly valuable and if you know what your dollar per hour is worth, it’s very expensive to go around and personally network with people. You still should do it. I’m not discrediting it, but it’s still not free. A lot of people don’t realize that when they look at what they’re investing in Facebook, it’s ridiculously cheap even if you do pay. You can get an ad for $5, it can reach 2,000 people. That’s really cheap. There’s nothing else you can do for $5 that’s going to reach 1,000 people. The ads can be highly targeted so they’re only to your community and not overseas. It’s just as targeted as direct mail. It’s highly important that everybody is on Facebook, but they need to understand how the system works. It’s a very strategic system. It’s not just throwing up an ad or putting up posts. It’s all strategy driven.
Bryan: Right. I think it’s one of the classic cases of Facebook’s audience. They give us this tool to use for free. We’ve gotten used to using it for free for so long and everything has worked great.
Alicia: Totally spoiled.
Bryan: Yeah, we got spoiled. Exactly. They’re not doing it with malicious intent either. I think that’s the important thing that photographers and business owners need to realize. They’re basically doing it because the average user on Facebook can see something like 1,500 posts within a day. Of course, the average user can’t go through that many posts in a day, so Facebook naturally has to do some kind of filtering to say, “Here’s what we’re going to show you”. Facebook has their algorithms and their way of showing you what they think you want to see. That’s just like Google has an algorithm for using search engine optimization. What are some things that photographers can do to get more engagement and start using Facebook in a more strategic way?
Alicia: For it to work more effectively for you, you have to understand what Facebook is. It’s a community. It is not a platform for you to sell on, and that’s what a lot of people really misunderstand about Facebook. It is community driven. People come to Facebook because they want to be entertained, encouraged, motivated, informed. They don’t come to Facebook to be sold to. When you go to a lot of photographers pages, the only time you see them post is client sessions, promotional, and blogposts. That’s the only kind of content that they’re sharing. People are just like, “I don’t really care. It doesn’t pertain to me. I’ll like one or two of that but not every single post that you put up because I feel kind of creepy. I’m almost like a stalker!” People feel weird doing that. Nobody really wants to do it. They might still like your work, but they’re not going to go through and like and comment on everything that you’re doing. What happens is, in that algorithm, Facebook reads their lack engagement as their lack of interest. Facebook goes, “This person’s not interacting with this page. We’re not going to show it to them anymore, because they clearly don’t care about that page anymore”. Facebook is taking your visibility and being compassionate. You’re like, “Well, that’s not theirs to decide!” Actually, you decided that because you stopped liking, commenting, and sharing from that page. That’s what a lot of people don’t understand. Your active engagement on a page decides if Facebook is going to show you a post. They’re going to stop showing that page to you and show you a page that you seem to be more engaged with. That’s one of the things that a lot of photographers need to understand. A lot of people aren’t seeing their posts, because they don’t really want to see their posts. What they need to do is create more community content.
What does their audience want to talk about? It can be related to a bowling league. Everybody shows up and they’re bowling. You know that this guy is an electrician, plumber, owns a hardware store. You know everybody’s occupation. You know them, they’re your friends. They don’t talk about their occupation or come to you and say, “Hey, if you ever have a need, I’m here for you!” or, “Hey, have you checked out my recent work?” They don’t do that to you because you’re a community. You’re friends talking about events that are currently happening in your personal lives. That’s what Facebook is. It’s not all about the page owner, it’s about the audience. They love to talk. They love to engage, and want to be engaged. You can see huge social media pages, and they’ll post a sentence like, “Peanut butter and jelly or honey?” You’ll get 5,000 comments because someone’s like, “Oh, they really care what I think! It only takes me 3 seconds to respond? I’ll do that!” People want to feel like they’re wanted. That is what community is all about – feeling embraced like you have a say.
For photographers, that’s difficult for them because they really just want to showcase their work, be told how great they are and that they’re liked. They want their clients to just spread word of mouth, and that’s not Facebook. That’s trying to reinvent the wheel of the whole purpose of Facebook. Facebook is showing what people are sharing the most – something like 87% of Facebook are motivational posts and quotes. If we know that to be true, we go, “How do we use this in our business?” When I post an image, you can slap a motivational quote or inspirational something on it, and it’s going to increase it’s share-ability. It’s not that you have to stop sharing your images and share random stuff. It’s just being more strategic in how you present your information. It’s more about strategy and not just about sneak peeks or blog posts. A lot of people don’t read blog posts unless they’re viral posts. For a post to be viral, it’s usually on a bigger platform than someone’s blog. It has to have a really big following, and there’s a lot of strategy that goes into viral blog posts. Everything you post on Facebook, it has to have a strategy. That’s what’s important to understand – every single thing has to have a strategy. It should not be random.
Bryan: That’s all spot on, Alicia. One of the things that I want to emphasize to the audience is to listen to what Alicia is saying here. It’s dead on the point. I also think that it’s very much a mindset shift for the photographer and the business owner. It’s not about taking these tactics to increase engagement. I have this vision of thousands of people now going and asking their fans who likes peanut butter or jelly better. It’s not necessarily about the tactics, it’s about the approach. You have to have a genuine approach and change the way that you want to use social media to genuinely create a community. Create engagement that just happens to also be on your business page.
Alicia: Absolutely. That’s the thing about Facebook. It has to be completely genuine and authentic, because people can see when it’s forced. You can tailor all of that engagement to being authentically you and your brand. Those things can fit. A lot of people slap their logo on images and they’re like, “I want brand recognition.” There’s so much more to your brand than just visual recognition of your logo. There’s the voice. How you connect with your community. I usually post one to two engaging questions on my Facebook page everyday, because I know what people want to talk about. They want to talk about what’s going on in their life – if its a personal struggle, a deep emotional thing. I know that about my audience. What I know about my audience, I translate into, “How can I engage them? Because I already know they want to talk about it – how can I draw it out of them?” The same can be true for photographers. What do you know deeply about your clients? What’s important to them about having photography and how can you draw that out of them? They might surprise you, but you already know what they’re going to say. You need to let them know that they are heard and you know they feel that way. So, you ask the question even if you know the answer.
Bryan: That’s awesome. Approaching these ideas and tactics with the mindset that you need to have genuine intent with what you’re doing, let’s talk a little bit about some actionable steps that photographers can actually do in terms of strategy. It makes sense that you want to have engagement, talk about relevant items, topics, and newsworthy things that are happening. How does a photographer start these kinds of conversations? Let’s say that you’re sitting at home and all you’ve been doing so far is posting teasers and blog posts on your Facebook page. Where do you go from here?
Alicia: The first thing you need to do is you have to come up with a strategy. What is your goal? If you don’t know what you’re trying to achieve, it’s just going to be a bunch of really weird random things. First, you need to sit down and come up with a goal. What is the purpose of your Facebook page? Once you know what you’re there for, you can be able to plan. I like to plan out my whole month. What do I want to accomplish this month? Do I want to build more shares so that I get a little bit more reach? Do I want to build strong relationships with the audience that I currently have? Do I want to grow my page numbers? I always look at what’s my strategy for the month. Where do I want it to go? Once I do that, I break down and pull it back. I go, “What kind of content is going to get that goal faster?” If I want to expand my reach more for that month, I’m going to be creating a lot of content that’s more shareable, because I want to build organic reach more than paying for ads. I try and plan out, “I need to have this many to be able to be more shared.” Of course you have to have that goal. That’s the number one thing that you need to do. What’s the most important thing that you want? A lot of people right now have dead audiences. I looked at hundreds of photographer pages last week. One of the things you can do for spy ninja tactics is that when you look up someone’s Facebook page, you can look at how many likes they have and how many people are currently talking about them. Most of the time, there’s either 0 people talking about them, or less than 10% of their audience. It’s a really, really small number. It’s completely possible to actually have even more people talking about you than your actual page likes.
Most people that I’ve been looking have no engagement. What you need to first start out with is getting people to see that you’re showing up more than your audience does. To get started, even if there’s no one interacting with you, I highly recommend that you start posting 5 times a day. It’s really hard for a lot of people but it’s important to understand why you have to post 5 times a day. I sent you the link for you to share with your audience about how to do the 5 posts a day, because it’s very strategic. Because Facebook is only showing 1 in 16 of your posts, you’re not getting all your posts to show up to someone in a day. Everyone’s like, “Oh I don’t want to overwhelm my audience” and I’m like, “Trust me, you’re lucky if your audience sees one of your posts”. That’s why you need to do several of them. A lot of people understand is that probably 70% of their audience won’t even be on Facebook that day. They’re not going to see those posts. A lot of their audience might only check in at night, so if you post in the morning they’re not going to see that post. You need to have it spread out in the day – it’s really important. You need to change how the content is being presented. If you daily do a motivational quote, you don’t do motivational quotes at only 9AM every single time. That person of habit is only going to see your motivational quote and not your content. You have to change. One time, you do it at 9, next at 11, you change things up. Be constantly inconsistent.
Bryan: I love it. The question that’s burning in everybody’s ears right now, I think that I know the answer to but I’d love to hear your thoughts on it. You’re saying 5 posts a day, which is good. I totally agree with that. The listener is remembering what you said earlier, how you only check- in three times a day 15 minutes at a time. Of course you can’t be scheduling out 5 posts a day like that, so what’s your strategy? How are you doing that?
Alicia: That link I’m recommending to you is called my Facebook experiment, “How to Do 5 Posts a Day”. It ends up being 29 posts in a week. What you do is, you have 29 specific posts. Small business shoutouts, motivational quotes, blog posts, a link to your opt-in. They’re all those things that you need to post in a week. It’s completely laid out for you: How many times you do that and what days you do it on. Do it once a week. Once you get in the habit of it, it goes a lot faster. I can whip it out in an hour, because I do it every week. It’s a habit. Sit down and create all your content for the week all at once, and then you schedule it. Personally I just go through Facebook platform, I to go through my posts. I don’t use Hoot Suite or Sprout Social. For me, it’s a lot easier to do on Facebook because I do it on my phone app and I really like to do it on my phone.
Bryan: So you’re creating the post as if you’re going to post it right then and there, but you’re using the little schedule button that’s in the bottom left corner?
Alicia: Yep. A lot of people aren’t even aware that it’s there. There’s a little clock there that’s in your status box, and it can let you schedule the time. You can plan yourself out really far if you’re organized, which is excellent if you’re going on vacations, you have busy seasons – you can always have your marketing going. The problem when you schedule is you can become complacent about engagement. Just because you schedule doesn’t mean you get to walk away from it. It just means that it’s all done so that you don’t have to constantly come up with content throughout the day. It’s being much more productive in a smaller amount of time by creating and scheduling it all at once. It’s much more efficient that way, but you’re still coming in 3 times a day to like people’s comments, engage with them, because that’s still so, ss important. You don’t need to sit there all day long. People are okay if you don’t answer their questions within the first five minutes. It’s completely okay.
Bryan: We’re looking at this for photographers that they’re wanting to do this strategy where they’re putting in some motivational things, some plugs for all their local business, and linking to other relevant content. Do you have a number in your head that makes sense where there’s a certain % that’s plugging your own content and there’s a certain % that’s plugging other content?
Alicia: The 80/20 rule seems to be pretty consistent with a lot of different things. You don’t want more than 20 percent of your Facebook content to be about you. People will get turned off. You have to remind people that you are a business. That’s really important. You are for hire. You don’t want to pull back and just share all these other things. A lot of people don’t understand that sharing peeks of sessions is not a call to action. You need to at least 3 times a week, tell people where they can call and hire you. You have to tell people to check out your website if you want them to. They’re not going to just meander over there because they saw sneak peeks of someone else’s session. A lot of people assume that’s the way that it goes. Most people really like to be told what to do. It’s not because we’re stupid. A lot of people are like, “Oh, I don’t want to talk down to them”. It’s not that. They’re just not sure what to do. “Are you just showing off these pictures because you want us to congratulate you? We’re not really sure why you’re doing this.” Photographers think like photographers, but clients don’t think like photographers. We need to make it as easy on them as possible of what we want them to do. You need to have clear call to actions several times a week if you want to be hired.
Bryan: Right. Putting that in an actionable idea for photographers that are listening, in your opinion, does it make sense to have a call to action where it’s, “Hey, check out my website!” or do you think there’s other things that photographers can do in terms of call to action that can increase engagement or increase click through rates?
Alicia: Absolutely. There needs to be a strategy. You have to have an understanding of, when you have a call to action, what’s your strategy? What’s your goal? It’s not, “Just hire me.” Why hire you? Why now? It needs to have that strategy. It’s not just, “Hire me, go check me out. I’m for hire right now.” Usually the best thing to do is having an ppt-in, a way to list build that you can capture their information. Even if they’re not ready to hire you, you still have their attention. Facebook owns the audience. You do not own that audience. You always want to be finding ways to transition your Facebook audience to your e-mail audience so you can continue your marketing efforts in the event that Facebook does go away. It’s always possible. They own your audience. You need to have something of value that you can give your clients to get their contact information. Usually people are more inclined to give you their contact information if they’re getting something of value in return.
Bryan: This idea of having some kind of product, ebook, or email gate, is a great idea. Whenever I hear this discussed in other podcasts or shows, it’s normally a B-to-B company talking to a B-to-B company. So there’s usually the info, products, and that kind of thing. I’ve made it my mission that whenever this topic comes up in conversation, I love to dive a little bit deeper and say, “What could that look like for a photographer?” What kind of content do you think would make sense for a photographer to put behind an e-mail gate in order to get access to that kind of email or contact?
Alicia: Absolutely. It’s really understanding what’s your brand and what’s your branding message. What are your strengths? What do you know a lot about that you can add value to your client’s life, that builds trust and relationship with them? I have one client, she sells tons of digital files, and so we created together her opt-in on what to do with your digital files once you own them. A lot of people are Googling the topic of where they can order products. It’s a Google-able topic. She gets a lot of people that are signing up for her opt-in, because they’ve seen her website and that digital files are a big part of her package. Once they have the digital files, she walks them through, “Here is the most important way to store them, here is all the places” She gives them the links. It’s highly valuable content, not just talking about her. Someone can take that content and go to another photographer. It’s not directly pointing to her, so it doesn’t feel as sleazy. “Oh, she’s just talking about herself,” but what it does is it brands her. Once somebody reads an info-product from your brand, they’re going to remember you, because they keep seeing your information in front of them. It’s on their iPad, Kindle, their computer. She makes a highly valuable PDF of all her favorite vendors that you can order things from – even canvases, print books, tons of things. It’s a highly valuable PDF, and it’s still relevant to her clients. I have boudoir photographers that do, “How to Prepare for a Session”, “How to Find the Right Lingerie for your Body Type”, “How to Prepare your Skin”. It’s all relevant. This person wants to know this information even if they don’t hire you. It still applies if they do hire you – they can still use that content.
Bryan: That’s perfect. That’s exactly the direction I was hoping you’d go. Thank you, that was perfect. Let’s wrap this up in this nice little package. You love pricing, I love pricing. We’re talking social media. Talk to our audience a little bit about how you sell on social media. How do you get an ROI from something like Facebook? Do you agree with the idea of having sales, discounts, or mini sessions and promoting that through social media? Or is that something that you recommend to your clients that they stay away from? What are your thoughts on that?
Alicia:I think there’s a time and a place for it, but I don’t think it should be the only thing. Social media doesn’t really like to be sold to. They want to engage, build community, trust. There are so many different elements that go into that. It’s easier to use those platforms if it’s Twitter or Instagram to build connections. Ultimately, always drive to your website or to your e-mail list. That’s where you do your selling. That’s personally my opinion. You can do limited, if you are doing a big promotion, but you still have to understand the strategy of it. You can’t just throw a blog link and say I’m doing mini-sessions and that’s enough. There needs to be more. If it’s a series of ads, it’s going to cost more. It might not return the same, but the return is substantially greater if you’re getting your Facebook community onto your e-mail list because e-mail marketing generally has a higher return for sales than Facebook. A lot of people need to understand that it’s not a sales platform. People don’t go to be sold to. They want to be connected to businesses, but they don’t want to be continually sold to. You need to keep having other strategies to get those promotions out there. You can do them, but you have to keep them limited.
Bryan: Right. It’s the example of the cocktail party that’s been used for years and years ever since social media came as a hot topic for business. You don’t go to a cocktail party and start running around, throwing your brochures and your business cards. You go to a networking event to build a relationship, and eventually over time those relationships can mature. When they need the kind of photography that you offer, you’re top of mind to them. I would think that social media and Facebook in specific is the same kind of idea.
Alicia:Yes. When you’re doing a lot of sales and that’s all they see, you come up as incredibly desperate.
Bryan: Awesome. Alicia, you’ve shared so much value and content here. I really appreciate having you on. I know that you and I can talk forever about these kinds of things, because we both have a passion for the topic. For photographers listening right now that want to find out more about you, your products, and what you have to offer, where would you want to send them to?
Alicia:They can go to my Facebook page. So they can actually see how I’m implementing this.
Bryan: For those listening, I’m a fan of Alicia’s Facebook page, Profit First Photography. She is literally practicing what she preaches. She does an amazing job at it. She’s engaging, and has a huge audience over there. You shared with me before the show that you’ve built your audience in a few short months to 20,000 fans.
Alicia:Yep. I started in January. Four months, 22,000 fans.
Bryan: That’s amazing. Facebook marketing for businesses and Facebook engagement is not dead, ladies and gentlemen. It’s still there and as great as it’s ever been. Awesome. Thanks for coming on the show.
Alicia: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, I appreciate it!